Vikki : Welcome to the podcast authors of the Pacific Northwest, where I connect authors with their readers. We also talk all about the authors inspiration, their journey to publication, and the authors will educate me and you the listener all about the business of writing. I'm your host Vikki J Carter also known as The Authors Librarian. Hi there listeners. It's the host of producer Vikki J Carter, host of this podcast, the Authors of the Pacific Northwest. And before we jump into the episode, I wanted to stop real quickly and share with you the newest project that I'm working on. If you are an author, I think you might be interested in it. I have a YouTube channel that I just launched called The Authors Librarian on YouTube. And on that YouTube channel, I am going to share with you free, accessible resources that you can use to help you with researching.

Vikki: I'm going to give you tips. I'm also interviewing librarians and I'm writing a book to help authors with researching. So hope you find me there on that YouTube channel. You can find the link in the show notes. Now let's get to the program. Hi there podcasts, listeners. Thank you so much for coming back to the office of the Pacific Northwest. And today I'm going to present to you one of my new friends, Indy, and, we are actually, this is take two on this recording. So I'm going to admit it to my listeners. we did a wonderful interview a while back and somehow it didn't record. So we're doing it again. Is that that, so Indy say hi to everyone.

Indy: Hey everybody. Good day.

Vikki: And Indy, your last name is Quinn.

Indy: Quillen. Thank you. It's an Irish name. Yeah,Irish

Vikki: name, so, okay, Indy. So tell us a little bit about yourself starting out with where are you located in the Pacific Northwest

Indy: Yes. we're, I'm actually living in, Snohomish County. So I'm close to the sound and I'm also close to the mountains. Lots of woods, lots of trees, green belts. Just love it up here. We're in, what's called the convergence zone cause so we never know what we're going to get for weather. Yeah. But it's exciting that way. And love, love, love all the trees. That's my favorite.

Vikki: So you probably love it there cause you're a tree girl. You're an outdoors girl. So

Indy: Yes, very much

Vikki: Being able to be by the sound and the mountains and seeing all of our beautiful forests. That's just one of the most amazing things to have all that in one area

Indy: We're still exploring it. We've only been up here three years and and then with COVID, it's been really tough to get out there and, camp as much as we want to. So, we're going to do a lot of exploring some more exploring this year and get out there and see more of this beautiful state.

Vikki: Well, I have read your book. I read one book. I know that you're working on additional as well. And I love it and I was drawn to it because it's an outdoor, that setting is very much in the outdoors. So tell us a little bit about your background, your outdoor life, because you are very fascinating to me. So share with our listeners all about your background.

Indy: Well, yeah, I guess when you read the Fox Walker novels, so you'll get the distinct idea that I love being out in nature and I spend as much time out there as I can. And, my grandfather, my maternal grandfather is the one who got me interested in nature at a very young age. He started teaching me the names of plants and flowers and birds and showing me how to follow tracks or make tracks in the snow. And, and so from there it just went on and on through my whole life. But I also became, for some reason, I became very fascinated with the Native American culture when I was just a young girl, had some very vivid dreams that sent me to reading every book I could find. And it wasn't until years later that I found out through my family that we might grandfather the same one who was the outdoors man and taught me so much about the nature, was, his great, great grandmother was Native American and came to the Midwest from Virginia.

Indy: And I don't know what nation she was from, but I have a sugar bowl that was hers, that she carried on a wagon all the way across the country. And then my grandfather was also a great friends, with, Native American gentlemen. And we only know his name is George. I don't know what his really name was. His real name was, but he gave my grandfather a beaded wampum belt that I have. And my paternal grandfather, every time he had piled up his garden every year he got arrowheads, we lived in the Midwest. And so we had, I have tons and tons of artifacts. So I did lots of studying of Native Americans and I became very fascinated with the spiritual connectedness with nature and, that resonated with me. And so when I created my character, that all just came into play. And and then about the time that Tom Brown Jr. became known as, a tracker, I, and I read every one of his books. I became fascinated in bush craft and wilderness survival. So it was just all of those pieces and parts that fell together to help me create a completely fictional character that I could, you know, portray these stories through, of being connected to nature and knowing how to survive and thrive in it versus surviving it. And so that's how, these stories kind of came to be.

Vikki: I love it because your whole life was researched for this book.

Indy: It actually was, and it's not stopped. I am now. I just finished eight weeks of courses with Woniya Thibeault from Alone, learning more bushcraft and buckskin, sewing and hide tanning and rebeeding and all these things that, I've always wanted to know my whole life and just never had a way to learn it. And with, the pandemic, the one side benefit was that Woniya was able to take her classes online. And so I was able to take these classes well, all of that is just playing in more and more to these stories because I want my stories to be very authentic and everything I do in the stories out there in the wilderness is things that I've done or experienced. And so it's important to me, to be authentic in my writing.

Vikki : I love it. So I want to go back just a little bit about that online class. Did they, did she send you materials or did you have to go find materials for hands-on projects?

Indy: Yeah, a lot of it, we would actually go out and get the materials ourselves. and then she did have some kits for like the buckskin sewing, you know, some kits that we could purchase, although I've already purchased a hide that I'm gonna use for project. So some of it, I had to go get the materials and some of it, you know, we were able to get them. So it was a mixture and it was such an intense course. That's going to take me a long time to get through everything and really try everything, but it's just been so fascinating. And so, I mean, I knew I've always had an organic gardens and I've raised my own food and done canning and preserving of foods. That part I knew, but it was all these other, ancestral skills that our ancestors knew. We wouldn't be here today. If our ancestors hadn't known how to survive and, and all those skills are being lost. And I think it helps us connect back with nature. And I think a lot of people have done that this last years realize that we have to get our connection with nature back in there to get rid of the stress and to feel like we're part of this world and not separated off into a room with technology.

Vikki: So true. So true. I love it. And once again, now you're living research again, you went through all those classes and since I read your book, I know kind of what the theme you're running in and along. I'm sure that all of that stuff you did in your class is going to, it'd be interwoven in some new stories.

Indy: Oh, yes, yes. I already have in, I'm working on book four right now for the Fox Walker novels and, there's a lot, there's quite a few mentions of buckskin sewing in there. So yeah, it's all gonna fill in. But, people that read my book seem to be, they love nature and they love being out, out in the wilderness with Fox Walker. And, I'm hoping that makes them want to be outdoors more.

Vikki: I think I told you this last time I have had this big run of wilderness, mystery, wilderness tracker or wilderness, or forest mystery, type authors on all around the Northwest. And a lot of them have based their books in the Northwest. I think I got one person on, and then you all followed him because I was like, this is so great. And I've been actually reading the books, which is really exciting. Cause I slowed down this year to read the books of the authors that come on. Also, I'm writing my own book, which will be out very soon. I can't wait. My first book is self publishing. I'm in the midst of launch process and I'm just about ready to, well, I'll just put this way. I know why people don't get books out

Vikki: A lot of

Vikki: Work, but anyways, the theme of the wilderness and particularly wilderness mystery, isn't something that I would have gone and looked at because I have a real serious fear of finding a dead body in the wilderness when I go hiking. I mean, it's not a joke, it's a legit. And so it's not something like I'm not running, I'm not running to these books and say, I want to read about this. You know, cause I really think that someday this will happen. And if you, if you were, if you were in the Pacific Northwest, you probably have that thought often when you go hiking, it's just right. So, so let's talk about the process of these books. the first story, did it come to you in a dream? How did it come about? And then what's your process for writing? Do you sit down and write the whole story and then go back and change things, kind of walk us through that.

Indy: No, this first book, it took me years and years and years to actually, have it all pulled together. And it was just all the different elements that we've talked about, me being out in nature and learning things and being fascinated with, bushcraft skills and wilderness survival and you know, my husband, he, you know, he laughs cause every time we go camping, you know, he's, you have 50 ways to make fire without matches, you know, but those are all things that just fascinate me. I think all of that just came together in a very odd way, because I didn't really have a clear idea of what the plot line was going to be. I just had more the setting and characters and what I wanted to portray. So it took me a long time and you know, the only way to learn to write is to write.

Indy: And so it took me a long time to write that first book. And even that it wasn't even anywhere near as what, what it is now. It was a completely different story. So, once I had it done, I'm like now what do I do? And I started going to writers conferences. I had two people strangers within two weeks, tell me to go to this writer's conference. It was a Southern California writers conference. I was in Southern California at the time. And I thought, okay, two strangers telling me to go here. I better go. So I did go to the conference and boy, talk about deer in headlights. You know, it was just, there was so much that I didn't know,

Indy: And that helped me realize I had a lot to learn. And so I started going to all the conferences I could get to and I took workshops and classes and, I submitted my, sample chapters for editors. Well, first I submitted to other authors to get feedback. Then I started, having, agents or, editors look at it. Then I started having agents look at it. And so it was through, you know, probably three or four years of going to these conferences and rewriting my book and, and actually learning how to write. When I wrote my book, I didn't know anything about plot lines or point of view or anything. So I learned a lot. And when I finally did, start submitting to agents, I was real fortunate. And this was Quebec in 2010. I, I went to a conference and my book that I was pitching, won best fiction award for the conference.

Indy: And I had three agents asked for the full manuscript and one of them, a gentleman from New York pulled me aside and he said, will you give me first read I really love this book. And we spent dinner together that night talking, he basically was interviewing me and, he read my book and took me on and I thought, okay, that's it. I've, I'm done. I've got it. You know, I, you know, wow. Okay, cool success. Not realizing how much I had to go yet. And that first book tracker it, it got great reads. Multiple reads that some of the big houses, one house and I don't really want to name names, but one house, basically said that he really wanted it really bad. He loved the writing, love the character. He saw it as a series, but he thought it was going to be too small of a story because the main character was the American.

Indy: This was before today's, you know, diversity. So today, yes. And then, and then another house, well-known house there in New York actually said that if I had submitted the book 10 years earlier, they would have picked it up with no qualms at all, but everyone was concerned about how to market it. And one loved the story. They loved the character, they, they loved the writing. They didn't know how to market it. And so finally my agent very wise told me, write the next book, wrote the next book and got it up. And they all loved it just as well. They still cared for the character. They liked the writing, then they still wouldn't buy it because of the marketing. So I talked to my agent and I said, you know what I really love these stories. He goes, I do too. And I said, I think I'm going to put them out myself. And he goes, do it,

Indy: Put them out there yourself and send me your next book, you know, and just keep that process going. And, what happened in that process is learning how to, I call it indie publishing because self publishing is when you do everything yourself. I wanted my book to look as professionally published as possible. So I hired the best cover designer I could find. I had professional editors, professional formatters. I got book blurbs from other authors to put on the back. I have my own publishing company and my logo, everything. I did everything I could to make this book as professional published as possible. I think that is key.

Vikki: Yeah, it is.

Indy: And if your cover doesn't attract someone, they're not going to open it up to see the great story in the site. So I did all this and I got that first book out. And then I followed up with the second book and started going on with the third and in the process of doing all this, I realize I'm kind of a control freak. And I really liked being able to do all this, myself to have the cover design. I want to have the title. I want to put them out. And, you know, as often as I want, I can control all the marketing. I can see all my stats. I know when I'm going to get paid. I, it, it just, it all just fell into place for me because I've had my own business for years. And so this just became another business for me to run. And, so I have not gone back to my agent. He said, I'm, you know, he was going to be my agent for life, but I actually really enjoy doing this. And things are changing in New York so fast. I can't even keep up with it. And so, I actually have a lot of authors who are traditionally published that have pulled their books and they're now publishing them

Vikki: The big trend of 2020-21. So bring it out now, will we say it's easy. Absolutely not. As I am discovering, this is not an easy process because I decided I was going to do Indi as well after two and a half years over a hundred interviews with authors. And I finally just said, enough is enough. I need to get some books out there. I get asked every day what a book is going to come out from me. And then I just decided to jump in with both feet. And, but it is probably the hardest learning curve I've had, and I've done podcasts. I've done all sorts of things. I'm enjoying it, but it's a learning curve. That's for sure. It definitely is.

Indy: And the only way, and again, the only way you can learn it is to jump in and what makes us so difficult Really I think for every writer is there is no path to follow. There is no set of guidelines that says, do this is number one. This is number two, because everybody's going to have a different experience. Everybody's going to react differently. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. And, and so what works for me, isn't going to work for you. What works for you is going to work for someone else. You have to find your own path. You have to find your own way. And, and I, I think it's great that some authors are doing both, they're working with, houses in New York and they're also publishing their own, S C CJ lions. She does, you know, there are a lot of people being very successful with that. S o would I never published with New York I'm not saying that, but what I am saying right now is I really enjoy what I'm doing. I like having control over it. And, but it is, you do have to do the work. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of it is a business.

Vikki: That's probably the best advice I heard. I don't know if I heard it from somebody on my podcast or that I was interviewing, or I heard it on another podcast, but, you know, it, might've been Joanna Penn from The Creative Penn who I follow and I've been following for years. she talked about that your books should, you should look at them, not as just your babies or things that you love, but it should be a product. And the minute my mind put that idea into a book, being the product of something I'm doing is like changed my whole mindset. I was like, Oh, I can handle that. Right. I'm okay with having people edit. I'm okay with, having reviewers read it ahead of time. If it's a product, I need feedback. Cause I've stand that business aspect of feedback when it was just a concept of something that I loved. And I wrote for me, I had a hard time letting go of people reading it. So yeah,

Indy: You have, you have to switch from the creative process to, to the business. And, yeah. And I have certain ways that I do that, that too, you know, is what I'm in the business mode and this is what I get done during this hour. And then I have to switch to being in the creative mode and, and, and the writing itself. And you do have to be able to do that. Yeah.

Vikki: You have nailed every single one of my questions without me asking. I love it. Good. How practice prerecording one test

Indy: I don't even, I don't even remember what we said it was. I don't either, but it was a lot of fun,

Vikki: But you know, I'm not perfect, so I make mistakes. So why don't we get into the book, title, the series, tell us all about that. I've read it listeners and I love it. And, and I usually don't say I'm going to love something. You know, I don't say it. I'm very honest. So if I don't like a book, I'm not going to come out and say, I love it. I really did love it. And I, what I really enjoyed about it the most was that there was, I felt like there's a lot of research in it. Now that I know you, and I know that's research from your life growing up and things that you loved, it makes it even better for me.

Indy: Cool. So awesome. No share

Vikki: With us indie the titles, the whole series, overview. And then when you're ready, you are welcome to launch right into the reading for us. Okay. And if

Indy: You want me to, I can, elaborate too on my writing process, if you want me to do that.

Vikki: Oh yeah. I think we missed that. Didn't we? Do you want me to do that first Yeah, let's do that first. Okay.

Indy: I know a lot of people, you know, have to do outlines or their pantsers or whatever. And, what I have found intriguing is that every book has been completely different. That's exciting. And so, and frustrating because after two or three books, I'm like, okay, I've got this dinner. Okay. I know what I'm doing now, I've got this process. I'm just going to dive in and go. And, and what I did on the first two books that I thought was working really well was I would write out all my ideas about my characters and what might be happening kind of loosely and stuff. And then I would create this timeline of what had to happen in the story and I would type it all up. And then I would, every time I got ready to do a new chapter and look at my timeline as, okay, what has to happen next

Indy: And do I need one chapter to do that Or two, or, you know, what do I need to do to get there And that worked really well. So I got ready to do the third book in the Fox Walker series, which was actually my fourth book to write, it didn't work. And I got to what I thought was going to be the ending. And it was like the middle of the book. And I'm like, well, that didn't work. Okay. And I struggled so hard with that book and had to redo my whole process. So then when I started book four, which I'm on now for the Fox Walker series, all of a sudden I found that nothing that I'd done in the past was working, that's it I am actually, I've handwritten the first eight chapters and

Vikki: That's not even heard of these days. I know.

Indy: I mean, I started out that way with one, but not for my other books. So I just couldn't, I couldn't sit at the computer. Do I had to hand write it. And I would write each chapter like eight times we making it better each time. And I don't know if it's because I just felt like my brain was in a fog from the COVID year and I just couldn't focus. And then, and so doing that just helped me get everything back out into focus. And after writing about eight chapters by hand, then all of a sudden everything started clicking in and I'm like, okay, now I think I can write out a timeline. Now I can go back to what I'm used to doing. But for some reason with this book, I had to just sit and hand write things, to figure my, I guess, maybe get to know my characters. And I have Fox Walker in a different environment. That's his challenge. This book is he's in a different environment. So I guess I just had to, I kind of had to experiment and play around to kind of figure out what was going on with this book.

Vikki: I see. That's so exciting though, because I mean, I know there are people that have a process and they stick by it and they can just produce with,

Indy: Oh yeah, I admire those people.

Vikki: They're like 12 books a month. I mean, totally produced. And I'm like, I can get one done. I don't know how this is possible, you know, and, but they have a set process for themselves, but I don't know if I'll ever have a process for myself because I love the fluidity of how my characters come to me and I have several different book ideas. So I constantly have book ideas from different series floating around in my head. Exactly. And that's the hard part for me is like, okay, I got to get one thing done. Then I got to move on to the next one. So I love that process. So you inspired me that it's okay that sometimes it's not going to be a process for each book. It's not gonna be the same process.

Indy: No. And, and I actually, besides the Fox Walker books, I actually, last, this last year of 2020, I actually published a book I'd written a few, three or four years ago. And I was never quite happy with it and it's a, a romantic suspense and it was a story I just wanted to tell. And I finally got the idea that what I wanted to do was change it from third person, point of view, to the main characters in first person. And the other characters are in third. So I had to rewrite the whole book again so that she was the first person that is not an easy thing to do. And, and in the process of doing that, I had some people beta read it and I changed the ending when I got done with it. I really was happy with this book.

Indy: And so I went ahead and put it out. Now this is a completely different genre than I've ever written in. And it is not one of my Fox Walker novels. But I just, it was just a story, like you said, was characters in this story I wanted to tell. And so I had to get it out there. And, and so that went out this last year. Well, that made me falling behind with my books. I'd been doing one a year for Fox Walker. And so, and then I'm really far behind because of taking all these classes with Woniya . And so I'm like army third. Yes. Yes. So, so I'm working very diligently. So the first book, for the Fox Walkers series, well, the, the romantic suspense novel is called Reputation. And even though it starts out in, LA in Malibu, it quickly ends up up in the mountains of California and it's a fictional town, but those people who live in California will know it's based on Idlewood. And, yeah, so, little artists kind of little town. And so my character actually ends up spending a lot of time in nature there. But that one was tricky to write because when she first starts out, she's not comfortable in nature. Oh yeah. This is a foreign place to her. And so to write her character was kind of difficult for me. So then she learns to love nature. So

Vikki: A great story. I'll have to go sit down and read it now.

Indy: So the first book in the Fox Walker

Indy: Series is Tracker and that's where we have the introduction of, Fox Walker. And basically, you know, we learn a lot about him and his skills and his, spiritual connectedness with nature, his back, a little bit of his background. And we meet the character, Natalia, which I won't say too much about. So since they're going to read you this. The second book of Pursuit, that was a really fun book to write because I thought who could I pit Walker against It would be such a challenge. And so he's basically trying to search for an escaped convict in the national forest, who is a former Navy seal who specialized in wilderness survival, amongst many, many other, you know, talents. And so, you know, he's got an equal out there.

Vikki: Trust me, I got to read this one because we have a very, very good friend who is ex Navy seal also survivalist who had a TV show about it. Oh, awesome. Then when you told me about this last time I pictured him. He's not a criminal . But I can't give away anything, but no, but it wouldn't be hard to track somebody that knows what they're doing

Indy: And knows how to set ambushes and buggy traps. Yeah. So I really had fun writing that book. I think it's still kind of my favorite. But just because of that cat and mouse aspect out in the wilderness of two men of equal skill, but what I did in that book is I showed the difference in philosophies, with being in the wilderness and how it worked for each person. Yeah. And there's no right or wrong, it's just, it's just different. So the third book is Duplicity and that was really different. There were a lot of different, for that, for that book, Walker does spend some time out in the wilderness. But in this one he has to kind of deal with, the ugly underbelly of civilization a little bit more than he ever has to.

Indy Reads: And I'm dealing with that. And there's various, plot lines going at the same time in that book. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So, and then, the fourth one that I'm working right now is going to be, if the name is Astray and it's about a missing woman missing person. But this all takes place in the North Cascades. So, Walker's in a different environment than he's used to. And he has a search and rescue person that's kind of there with him against his will to be a help. And, so there's a lot of, he has a lot of challenges in this particular one and the missing person isn't really missing. So yeah, she's a stray. She's so awesome. Fantastic. So, so I'm going to read just, just the beginning, just a few pages from chapter two. So the setup for this is in chapter one, of course you get to meet Fox Walker and, Deputy Harris from the Sheriff's department comes out to his cabin to ask him for his help.

Indy: And, what has happened is there's been an unsolved mystery in the area. And one of the little note, local newspapers keeps writing stories about this, you know, a convict hiding out in this woods and the people that own this property are talking about seeing the spirit walking in the woods and, and the sheriff says let's, let's go out there. Let's search the area. That's proved. There's nobody there. You know, so the reporters don't get off my back and let's move on. And so he's been told to, to meet the search party and help them out. And so this is where I'll start reading from there. Chapter Two: Gray's Forest , Colorado. The next morning broke, broke cloudless and bright. The Aspen trees were at the height of their glorious transformation. Golden leaves quivering against the dark evergreen backdrop. Above the tree line. The San Juan mountains filled Fox Walker's vision.

Indy: As they marched across the South Western edge of the Rockies, bumping along the road in his truck and a heading into a wooded area, rumor to be harboring a fugitive or worse. It never occurred to Walker to feel apprehensive. This mystery needed an answer, and he meant to find it. If someone really were hiding in the woods, there would be fresh tracks somewhere, and he would find them. And after finding the Prince, he would find who made them. This wasn't an arrogant thought, just a simple truth. He was a tractor. It's what he did. Although the local towns, people viewed this particular section of the wilderness as eerie, giving it a dark reputation Walker's ancestors had for centuries considered mukua sogope a place of mystery and spiritual power. They mourned its loss when it became privately owned in the, owned by the Gray Family and had to resort to secret journeys there over the years, the treks into the forest dropped a number until grandfather and Walker alone made the visits to the area.

Indy: But his truck rolled up behind a line of vehicles parked at the edge of the woods where Harris had asked him to meet his eyebrows rose. "Damn, enough people here to hold a tribal council." He opened the truck door, stepped out stowed over to a group of deputies, gathered around a lanky middle-aged man and listened in on the conversation. He saw a few faces he recognized, including Harris. He ignored the puzzled glances from the man he didn't know. "Have your teams report in on the hour," the chief deputy ordered. "Remember the Search and Rescue Team is working a section of woods directly North of us, unless you hear differently returned to this point by dusk, that should give you enough time to penetrate to the center and back on th e West side only." The Deputy looked up, made eye contact with Walker, turned his attention back to his men, depending on what we find today, we will begin searching tomorrow from the opposite side, from the opposite side of the of course. Walker watched in silence.

Indy: He already, you knew that calling him in on this search had been the Sheriff's. I did not. Morgan's being told a meeting time later than everyone else confirmed. How Morgan followed about it. The chief deputy approached him as the other man made. Ready to begin the search. "Fox Walker?" "Yes," Walker extended his hand. The man gave him a quick handshake. "Chief Deputy Morgan. I realized conducted independent search and rescues for Chef Kimball in the pass. And you're used to working alone." Walker nodded. That's all find and dandy , but this time you'll be doing this directly under my leadership. You're here because of the Sheriff. You have a problem with that?" Walker met Morgan's defiant glare without blinking. "I'm here to honor the Sheriffs request." The moment lasted a heartbeat longer before Morgan looked away toward his officers. "So, you know this situation, we don't know if someone really is out there or not, but in the unlikely event, there is a fugitive out there.

Indy: We need to find him. I'm bringing him in." He looks straight at Walker again. "The Sheriff is anxious to clear up the mystery. " "I understand." "You carrying?" Morgan asked, his hand going to his gun. "Just this." Walker indicated the knife sheathed at his side. Morgan looked at it and shrugged, not hiding his smirk. " Whatever works. I don't suppose you have a cell phone with you? Something to check out and with us?" "No." "Figures," Morgan muttered. "I prefer smoke signals," Walker said . Morgan eyed him, then continued, "Well, if we miss seeing you back here, end of day, I'll ask that you check in at our office and file a report." "No problem." Morgan jammed his hands into his pockets, looked away a moment then faced Walker again. "You and I have never worked together before, and this search could take days in order to cover the entire force.

Indy: So I need you to understand one thing. We'll get along just fine as long as you take care of you don't get in the way of my men out there. You understand?" "You can be sure of that," Walker said without smiling. Morgan turned and strode away. "Hunan," Walker muttered to himself. The man acted like a young badger full of aggression, but with no understanding of the true power he possessed. Walker looked over toward a group of deputies standing within hearing distance of the conversation. He saw deputy Harris among the men. "Good to see you again, Walker" Harris said as he stepped closer. " Sorry about the mix- up on the meeting time. I didn't know until too late that Morgan moved it up. Don't mind him. He's just marking his territory." Yeah, that's what badgers do. Walker nodded. Me," Harrison said. " I'm glad to have your board."

Indy: Leaning against his truck, Walker watch the deputy scattered into the trees and undergrowth equally spaced and heading in an easterly direction. He reviewed, what he remembered of this portion of the forest. Footh ills border the vast racts tracks to the east, desert- like planes to the west. Because of this, the area contained a wide variety of vegetation. Walker listened to the noisy passage of the deputies drift further way. Deep within mukua sogope, south of this position, there were many streams and a few small lakes. If someone were indeed hiding out here, that region would have the most resources and a fugitive would have ample warning if a search party were moving through, especially this group. The deputies were searching the wrong area. He was sure of it. Well, Morgan did ask him to stay on his men's way. He opened the door of his truck, reached down and brought out a pair of moccasin boots and an ankle sheath containing a knife,

Indy: one smaller than the hunting knife at his waist. He remove the worn, leather cowboy boots and stowed them in the truck. Once he'd strapped on the ankle sheath, he slipped on the deer skin moccasin boots. One last check to make sure the pocket of his jeans held his flint, and he headed south into the trees. He always traveled light when tracking. He could move faster and with more stealth . Nature would provide him with everything he needed. He passed through the outer edge of the woods, breathing in the heavy scent of evergreens and fallen leaves. The aroma triggered a memory of long ago, the day when Grandfather took him to mukua sogope . Even at the age of eight, he understood the visit would be one of significance. He and Grandfather had stood at the edge of the dense woods. The smell of damp earth leaves and pine filling their senses. Remembered his excitement being tempered with his apprehension of the unknown.

Indy: He could hear the white boys at school chanting their favorite rhyme. "If you walk beneath the trees, watch out for the ghosts of the dead. Your soul t hey will surely steal and the forest floor will be your bed." Grandfather had said only, "Knowing a fact is not the same as experiencing it," and stepped into the woods, leaving him to decide whether to follow or not. A lifetime later, He didn't regret his decision. Grandfather had taught by experience. Every spare moment of his youth had been spent discovering the secrets and the natural world. The teachings gave him roots of stability to counter-balance his struggles in the white man's schools. As he matured, t he lessons went beyond awareness and wilderness survival, and delved into the deep realm of the spiritual connectivity of all things. That's why he inherently understood this search today had purpose. His intuition confirmed it. The sunset high in the mid day sky

Indy: when he found the first sign that someone did indeed wander mukua sogope, and not a ghost . The markings and the dirt indicated the digging stick had been used together some Sweets Cicely plants. He could tell by the traces of circle left in the dirt. The person would have chosen a sturdy sapling, and beveled and fire-hardened one end. Pushing the stick into the ground next to the plant, they would then pry upward, at the same time pulling on the plant from above. An effective technique for collecting the entire plant, and all parts of the Sweet Cicely were edible. The fact the stick had been fire hardened and use this way told Walker the person knew something about wilderness survival, or at least about edible wild plants and how to gather them. It made him re-evaluate his notion that if someone was hiding out here, he might have an accomplice bringing food to him.

Indy: Could it be one of his people? As far as he knew no Ute, apart from Grandfather and he, had bothered to come here for many years. Maybe the fugitive true, then. A murder at home in the wilderness? A shiver ran over his skin at the idea. And the sheriff wouldn't be happy with the news. Walker searched the ground for footprints, but found nothing clear enough to read. Still, he did have a trail to follow, for even without prints he could see where someone had passed through the area. Years of observation had trained him to read signs and nature as easily as most people read street signs. Disturbed soil, broken twigs and overturned pebbles on the forest floor became marked path for him. We moved forward with a caution within an hour, came upon his first set of clear footprints. Judging from the moisture content of the compressed soil, these were fresh prints made within a few hours time. Even at first glance, he knew something looked different from what he expected to find. He squatted next to the print f or a closer look, ten set back on his heels. "A barefoot woman?" he muttered. The size and depth of the depression indicated the prints belonged to a small-framed female. A woman. Out here. Shoeless and alone? What the hell?

Vikki : Awesome. I love that part. I'm like, yes. Keep going. But no readers, you got to get this book. It's very, very good. And do you want to find out what happens to him It's it's very interesting. So thank you for sharing that section with us. So Indy, as we start wrapping up this podcast episode, would you like to give a tip to somebody, that's like me who's now currently in the process of publishing her first book, Indie publishing, any tips for me or listeners that are in the same boat I'm in,

Indy: You know, that is, that's a good, I'm trying to think real quickly here, besides if you're just starting out, go to conferences, meet other writers, get a writers community that you can, I mean, of course we can't do that right now with COVID, but you can do it online. Meet other writers, talk to them, find out what they're doing, grow your community. I learned so much from other writers and I still say in contact with so many of my writers. That is where you learn all the different ways that, you know, people are things and

Indy: it helps you. The more you can see what other people are doing, the more you can find what works best for you. And find your path. And do a lot of reading research, find people that you feel are giving you good information and follow them and keep track of their blogs or whatever they do to communicate with people. So finding your path as the most important thing and something that I do want to tell people is so many people wait to build their online presence until they have a book published, which is the worst thing you can possibly do. You need to start building your online presence, a website, you know, social media and start finding who your readers are, before you ever have your book out there. So that when your book is published, you've got people already waiting to buy your book, to start your fan base.

Indy: And then just, the other thing is in today's world, I think readers really like to get to know you. They want to know more about you. They don't just read a book and then move on. They, they, if they find an author, they like, they want to know about you. And, so give them ways to, you know, leave reviews for your book, contact you. I can't tell you how many people I've had contact me, because of what I write in my books, that people who, no, I've had some kind of training and experience, you know. And so that's, it gives you good feedback that you're, that they believe the authenticity that you're putting in your book, you, and you want that. So, you know, keep working away at it and meeting people and trying to learn as much as you can.

Indy: A book that I really, really, love that is on writing. That's just a small little book it's called Invisible Ink, and it's written by Brian McDonald. It's a small little tiny book, read, fun read. And, it has a lot to do with a story and that he believes that our brains have been programmed for many years on the whole theory of how we do fairytales. So once upon a time, you know, and, if you follow those little steps that our brain wants to see or hear in a story, then your reader will feel satisfied when they read your book because you've hit all those marks. And so I think it's valuable a little book to read so

Vikki: Well. I mean, that's in show notes, not only myself, but everybody else can get an ad on my website because I have a resource page on my website. So I was like, yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for all the tips. It's all true. Energizing. I appreciate it. I'm so glad that you could be here and share, the Walker series with us. So listeners, jump on the show notes, get ahold of Andy. Let her know you heard her on the podcast, buy your books and also write a review. If you do buy the books and reads, please, I can't stress it enough, right A couple of little lines of how much you loved it, but definitely right through you. So, so Indy, thanks so much for being here. I appreciate you doing take two with me. Thank you so much for asking

Indy: Me. It's just been a pleasure.

Vikki : Thank you for listening to the podcast. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. Make sure you jump on the show notes, find the author, buy their books, write a review. And most importantly, you can find out more about me and my project at one of my two websites, www. squishpen.com or the authors librarian.com. And until next time, this is Vikki J Carter, The Authors Librarian signing off